Life With A Covert Stutter With Actor & Bestselling Author Jayne Amelia Larson

Transcript

Maya Chupkov:

  I'm Maya Chupkov, and I'm a woman who stutters. Welcome to Proud Stutter, a show about stuttering and embracing verbal diversity in an effort to change how we talk about it. One conversation at a time.

Welcome back to Proud Stutter. Today, I am joined by Jane Amelia Larson, a Los Angeles based actor, voiceover artist, writer, creative producer, and podcaster. Her name might also sound familiar because she was quoted in Proud Stutter's press release. Jane and I met through the Women's Podcasting World, um, and yeah, Jane, welcome, and can you tell our listeners how you found out about Proud Stutter?

Jayne Amelia Larson:

Well, I, I heard about you through the OSA Collective and they were promoting you. I thought that was really great. I also, because I am a stutterer, I, and I don't talk about it at all, like hardly at all, ever, almost never. I thought maybe this would be a good thing for me to try to do on your podcast. And also I kind of like the idea that there's.

A podcast for stutterers. I love it. We're like California and stuttering sisters. And by the way, I just heard you stutter a little bit and somebody else wouldn't notice it. And I learned something from your podcast recently about covert stuttering. I never knew there was such a word. I am a total covert stutterer. I. Most people don't know I stutter. I know I stutter all the time, every second that I speak, even in my dreams, sometimes, never when I sing, of course, never, ever when I sing. Um, and, and I'm also an actor and I do voiceovers. I never stutter when I'm acting, but when I do voiceovers, whenever I go to the booth and I'm in front of the mic, I, it's this whole thing that happens.

I have to talk myself down and talk myself out and do all the stuff. And a couple of times engineers have said, Hey, are you all right? What's going on? And I never say I'm a stutterer. I never do.

Maya:

Wow. So you've never. about your stutter in any of your voiceover acting gigs?

Jayne:

Never. I am open about it in the podcast because, uh, in my podcast, because I ask people at the end of each session, I said, can you tell me one thing about yourself that no one would ever know unless you told them?

And a lot of times they get stuck for a second. And I say, well, let me give you an example for myself. I say, I'm a stutterer. I'm a really bad stutterer. I stuttered all my life. When I was a little girl, I would stutter. Pass out rather than have to speak in class, like especially in Spanish class or, you know, Like any kind of language class or anything in English or to answer a question if the teacher called on me I would just pass out rather than speak and stutter and invariably the my guests would say wow, I would never have guessed that about you and They don't because I'm an actor.

I do voiceovers and but I stutter and So I don't talk about it in regular life, but I do talk about it for that 10 seconds in my podcast. And then it's always gets cut out because I say to my producer, can you cut it out, please? Can you cut that part out? It's only because I don't want my podcast listeners to listen to me talk about my stuttering. at the same juncture at the end of every episode when I'm asking a guest a very personal question. But I think it is one of those things like, what about you wouldn't, wouldn't somebody not guess? And I would not, and I would not guess you, Maya, are a stutterer because you're like me. You're like a covert stutterer.

Maya:

Yes. I'm so glad to hear you say that covert stuttering resonated with you. When I first heard it, same exact thing happened. So really glad about that. Um, so now I kind of want to shift and talk about family life. I'm wondering if you can talk about you're a family because you do come from a large family.

Like, and you're Yeah. The baby of the family, which comes with added layers. Is that right? Well, I'm actually the baby girl. I have a younger brother, but he's super bossy. So I ended up being the baby girl. He's the baby boy, but, and when we were little, everybody thought we were two girls. So I think he, because he hated that, he kind of became like a, like a super boy kind of thing.

Um, what happened in my family? There's, there's actually 10 of us, just five girls and five boys. My father was an only child and he married an Italian woman from Florence when, because he served II. And he was a handsome American Lieutenant. She was a beautiful Italian young girl when they married, really, she was like 17 and chaperoned until they were married.

And she came to this country and their first two children, my eldest brother and my eldest sister, who. are unfortunately now no longer, no longer living. My, um, my sister passed away recently. Uh, they both stuttered. So out of the eight, the top two stuttered, and then I came along number nine and I stuttered too.

And I remember hearing From my family or my, my mom later, she said, Oh, well you just stuttered because you were imitating your, you know, Christian Sandy, Christian Sandy. And I said, I remember thinking, that's not really, that's not how I remember it. I remember the stuttering like, like is awful. You know, the feeling, and I'm maybe some of your listeners do too.

It's just like a excruciating thing. You would never put yourself through it. If you had any other option at all. And. So I didn't, I never bought that, but I did buy this one thing. My, the brother who's slightly older than me, the, the, like the, the next born older brother was very ill when he was little.

And just about the time when I was learning how to speak, My mother was very preoccupied with him spending a lot of time in hospitals and doctors and visits and all kinds of stuff. And remember from a family of 10 children, we're all vying for attention. We're like, we're, we're like fighting the whole time for attention.

And, but also fighting for attention from each other as well. So I'm the baby girl, I have a younger brother, but I wanted my brother's and sister's attention for sure. But always you want the mother's attention. So maybe Maybe, I don't know this, I mean maybe, when I was learning how to speak, I thought if I stuttered, part of my little lizard brain or something thought, well if I stutter, maybe she'll pay more attention to me.

But I don't really buy that. I actually think, it's, there's something, I don't want to say deeper than that. People used to say too much copper, it's too much this, it's too much that, whatever. I know for myself when I'm tired, I stutter way, way more. Is that true for you too? Yeah, I definitely see that connection. Yes. And I, I know it now. I can feel it coming.

I say, okay, I haven't had enough sleep. It's, it's going to happen. Get ready for it. It's coming. And actually I don't even tell people whom I've dated that I stutter. They almost don't. really know that I stutter. I'm doing pretty much now what you do as a stutterer, which we covertly stutter, right? Um, but my boyfriend said to me the other night, cause we've been on a, we were traveling a lot and he said, you know, are you okay?

You seem tired. And he wasn't talking about my face. He was talking about my stuttering. That was really funny. I'm like, yeah, it's hard for me to talk right now. And, but, you know, I, like, I don't, so I, as I, it's hard to say, I don't really even, I don't even tell people who I know and by the way, it's not that I'm interested in keeping it a secret.

It's not like I, I'm ashamed of it or needs to be hidden. It's just, they really can't solve it for me. And as I've heard on your podcast, people say, just relax, calm down, take your time. You know, they, they do all these, like they say all these weird things, like it's going to help you not stutter. It's not true.

It doesn't help.

Maya:

Right. Yes. It does not help, especially like in the work setting. I feel like it's even more frustrating.

Jayne:

I've often have been in, in audition and I might've done it once or twice with a producer I felt really comfortable with. I would have loved to have said, can you hang on a second? Because I'm stuttering. So I just need to be able to start up a couple times in a row before I could get going. And I think they probably would have said, yeah, sure. Do whatever you need to do. Just like any performer, any creative, they have leeway to do what they need to do to get into a space, into a zone in which they can perform well.

But I, you know, it was really hard. Oh, excruciating was I did the audio version of my book. I did, um, I wrote a book several years ago and I was lucky it did really well. And, and they asked me to do an audio version of it and the audio recording was just hell. It was hell. It was so hard for me. Really, really hard.

Number one, because I guess I should say the name of the book, right? It's like Mystery. Yes, . Okay. It's called Driving the Saudis. And I was, and it's a best seller, right? It's a, it's a New York Times bestseller. That's right, that's right. I should learn how to plug it. Um, so I, uh, in fact, that goes along with stuttering, right? I think stutter. Often are self effacing, maybe error on the, on the, on the, the spectrum of over self effacing, I think, and that's a perfect example, but so I was a chauffeur for members of the Saudi Royal family here in Beverly Hills, and I was the only woman in a detail of over 40 drivers. And this was for a princess and her entourage of over 40. And they spent hundreds of thousands of dollars a day on shopping and plastic surgery. And I wrote a book about it that became a New York times bestseller hoping to make into, into a TV show, but it hasn't happened yet because people are afraid of the Saudis. But anyway, so it did really well from the hardback to paperback and again in paperback really well.

And so Simon and Schuster asked me to do an audio version and I, because I'm an actor, I would read it, and I had already done a play based on that same material. So I had all the characters, or I had many of the characters, that I, the same characters that I performed in the show were in the book. But when I got into the booth, because I wasn't acting anymore. I was just reading. I was like, I mean, every, every word was so hard and the engineer, I don't remember his name. And if you're, if you ever listened to this, I forgive you, you forgive me. He was awful. He was just awful. He didn't know what was going on. He didn't know why I was having trouble. I couldn't tell him the truth.

And I couldn't really, I couldn't come back from, I already knew how to perform the characters as an actor. I knew how not to stutter as an actor. And so it was easier if I was doing the hairdresser, I'd say, la, la, la, la, la, la, Johnny, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, Johnny, Johnny, Johnny, no, no, no, Johnny. I walk, you make me walk. Why you make me walk? Why, why, why Johnny? But then in the booth. I would be like, why, why, uh, he, he said, why Johnny, why you make me walk? So I didn't really do the character, number one. And I didn't really portray the fluidity of the writing because I was stuttering throughout it. So it was awful. I think the recording is still okay because we did it a second time. I had to pick up. Pieces of it because, uh, I was lucky actually. I happened to read a review of the audio version in advance who said, you know, I really like listening to it, but there's some really weird parts of it where the author doesn't know what she's reading. Doesn't know what she's saying. I, why, how could that happen?

I know. I was like, so I went back to. My agent, Simon Schuster, said, What did they put out? What did they, did they not edit it? Did they not, what happened? So, yeah, they didn't. They just put out, did a really bad version of it. Where I, it actually wasn't even directly related to, it wasn't only directly related to the stuttering.

They like skipped pages and went back and repeated sections So anyway, it would, it was finally redone. I think the audio version now is okay, but you know, word up when you are ready to do your book version of proud stutter, because of the book you're going to write about this, just get ready to do that recording and. Manage that engineer.

Maya:

That's so frustrating. Um, does that, did that kind of show up in your acting career as well?

Jayne:

My first TV job, I first big, big TV job, let's say, and I haven't done a lot of TV or film, and I'm not sure why that hasn't actually happened, but it might be related to something like this. I'm not sure. I was. Uh, on the set of Judging Amy, and it was my first big, like, set, you know, like, like, roll on set. There's three cameras running, stars in the room, and it's my, uh, and I started the shooting in, in the morning. So you were there at six in the morning, right? They say, uh, can I get you breakfast? Miss Larson, it's like, yeah, I have a cappuccino. I don't know. And, uh, so I'm on set that done my hair and makeup and director says action. And I couldn't say a word. I had nothing. It was either or nothing. So I didn't stutter. I just said nothing. Cut. Number one, they take it back. Cameras get back in position. Okay, are you good? Are you ready? They say to me, Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm good, I'm good. And, okay, action! Again, I'm like,

Nothing. I'm about ready to ball. I'm shaking, sweating profusely. I could feel the sweat dripping down my back, like into, into my panties, you know, which is awful and the lights are hot, really hot. And I'm thinking, okay, I'll just pass out. I could just pass out. Like I did when I was in fourth grade. That'd be perfect.

I'll just go out. And time daily came up to me. She was in the scene with me and. She came up to me and she kind of grabbed me by the back of the neck, but not in a bad way, like in a good way. And she held me by the shoulders in the back of the neck, like with her whole arm. And she said, young lady, breathe, breathe. '

And she said, Oh, you're all right now. Yeah, I think so. She said, okay, she's ready. And then action. And I went and she saved my ass because otherwise I think I would have left. I mean, I think I would have left. Wow. A lot of actors stutter a lot. And when we're in character, normally you never stutter. This was different for me because on stage you're in character, you maintain the character the whole time, but on set you're, you're, you're doing one thing and then you jump into character.

Now, if it were a movie, maybe Oh, well, actually that, uh, I can, I can say from, uh, from history that whenever I was doing a film, uh, it's a little, it's quite a bit easier in part because, uh, I don't want to say a softer environment, but there is a more, um, um, enclosed environment, but in, on, on a TV set, TV, shoot on a sound stage, it's like work, work, work, work, work, business, business, business.

And then you just come in and do your thing and you get out. So that thing became, okay, it's me, even though I'm playing a role. And that's why the acting, I think, I mean, and that's the reason why the stuttering kicked in, because it was like, I'm on, okay, I gotta be on. I gotta be on.

Maya:

Did you ever encounter other people who stuttered, whether it was actors or people behind the scenes? Like how did you ever encounter others who stuttered?

Jayne:

I did indeed. But I don't think. I don't remember ever acknowledging or talking about it. A couple of actors, for sure, uh, for sure. Anybody behind the scenes, like, um, cameraman or set people? No, no, that I don't remember. I have, uh, I do work with, uh, Youth in foster care. And that's what my podcast is about. But, and I do meet a lot of kids who stutter, a lot of kids, a lot, uh, especially kids in the foster care system. And I don't know whether there's a, whether there's a higher percentage of them who stutter in foster care. There's a, there's definitely a disconnect for many children who experience trauma.

In how their speech develops from, from whatever age they experienced trauma to the, to the time to the age they're expected to perform in a certain way. And I, I would like to actually find out more about that and research that because I have noticed myself with the kids who I've met and I now, because my partner and I, my, my boyfriend and I, we both volunteer with youth in foster care.

In Los Angeles with the organization called Peace for Kids dot org. And they're great. They're like a community organization here for 25 years. And their motto is you can't choose your family, but you can choose your community. And we know we can't choose our family, right? We're just born into it, but sometimes our families fail us.

And a lot of these. Kids in foster care, not a lot of them, all of them, their families have failed them. So, I mean, to see what happens with these kids who I see when they're two, three, four, eight years old, and now some of the kids I know for, uh, eight, eight, eight or nine years. So I met him when he was four, and now he's six or eight or ten or twelve, and you see the development, not only the brain development, but the, The verbal development and there's definitely something that happens to children who have experienced trauma and how they create and nurture speech.

I'd love to find out the research on that because I suspect there's probably something to it. When I was learning how to speak, my mom remarked on this and by the way, she became a psychoanalyst after having 10 kids. And being married, she left my dad and she, she trained and she became a psychoanalyst for the past 35 years.

And so I think she's really good at what she does. So there's probably something to that where she says, well, you were learning how to speak when your brother was sick. And it was probably related to your having difficulties. She's probably right. I was like trying to get attention, trying to figure out my thoughts and how my thoughts became words.

And she's busy with my brother, who's very sick. And my other, at that time, seven, eight older brothers and sisters, I was also trying to get their attention. So maybe that's somehow translated to me. Becoming a stutterer. I don't know.

Maya

That's definitely an interest of mine too. And one of the last things I wanted to just mention to you is hearing about your acting experience a part of me wishes I kind of Um, try it out acting, not so to get famous or to be an actress, but just like to see how I could help with my stutter in a way through acting.

Jayne:

Totally. It's totally, it would, they should take like a, an acting class now and there's great classes in San Francisco and Los Angeles. You can just take an acting class and you know what? Yeah. It totally helps. The reason why I'm able to have a conversation with you right now is because of my acting classes. I'm sure of it. And not only that, not only that, sorry to interrupt you, it, it, it expands you emotionally. So you are not just yourself, you're an enhanced aspect of yourself, or, or one part of yourself that gets elaborated on, or a part of yourself that's hidden that gets to come out for a moment. Because we are ultimately only ourselves, even, and I think any really good actor will tell you that, they're not putting anything on, they're just bringing stuff out.

When you're working on a character, when you're developing a character, you're always thinking about what does that character want? What do they want and how are they going to get it? And how do the words or the actions that are written in this scene, in this play, in this movie, how, how do those represent what that character wants?

And that's, you're always thinking about objective intention, objective intention. It's just the same, it's the same word really, but it's, but, but it's really always that. It's like, where are they going? What do they want? And because of that, there's that drive that pushes through when you're using the words of the character that as a stutterer, you just ride on, you just get, you get on the horse.

And you go, okay, I'm going in that direction with my character and they're going to get that. And I'm using these words to get that. And it just, it just goes.

Maya:

Yeah. I mean, we covered a ton and I just wanted to add, like, before we end, do you have anything you wanted to say that you didn't get a chance to?

Jayne:

Well, I guess I just want to say my hat's off to you. I think you have, it's incredibly brave what you're doing. I could never, you know, I'm doing a podcast about my work with youth and foster care. Uh, but I could never do a podcast. about stuttering. I don't think I could get through it. I really don't, even though I'm talking to you right now.

I don't think I'd get through it. So I just commend you for what you're doing. And please keep on doing it because there's a lot of us out here. And I like to know that I'm part of, uh, I'm part of your group. That's all. Yeah.

Maya:

Well, you are officially part of the group. Well, thank you so much, Jane. This has been amazing and I can't wait to meet you in person.

And yeah, thank you for sharing your heart.

Jayne:

Thank you very much, Maya. Thank you.

Maya:

That's it for this episode of proud stutter. This episode of proud stutter was produced and edited by me, Maya Chupkov. Our music was composed by Augusto Diniz and our artwork by Mara Ezekiel and Noah Chupkov. If you have an idea or want to be part of a future episode, visit us at www. proudstutter. com. And if you like the show, you can leave us a review wherever you are listening to this podcast. Want to leave us a voicemail? Check out our show notes for the number to call in. More importantly, tell your friends to listen too. Until we meet again, thanks for listening. Be proud and be you.